I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Yeah, it’s actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
Its a safe space for them to be… away from me
They still get loose and troll .world while the mods there give them free reign and ban you if you report them for trolling. You can’t call them trolls, but they can call you a troll.
On the other hand, an isolated community can also become a nasty brewing pot, reinforcing harmful behaviors and even intensifying them over time.
I don’t think calling them safe spaces for hateful assholes is accurate, but I understand frustrations with them.
If you think yogthos isn’t the main account of return2ozma you’re gonna have a bad time.
Really? Damn that’s crazy.
fuck that guy.
Before instance blocking was a thing I blocked individual trolls wheb I saw them and after about the fifth block I didn’t see a lot of hexbear, so it they have a few very loud individuals but instance blocking hexbear really made my browsing a lot more chill
lemmygrad? Oh, I missed that one.
Most instances have already blocked lemmygrad. Yours is one of a very few that has not.
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it’s hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.
I see it as the neonazi movement in the US in late 90s and early 2000s. They want to be edgy, but don’t have a significant structure to actually do anything important. Around 2006 I ended up stealing a knife from a neonazi that came in to the restaurant that I worked at. It was a Mexican restaurant btw lol
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
Do you have any evidence of that at all? Why would Hexbear remain as an isolated instance for 4 years then, only beginning federation in the last year?
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
Is your question why a propaganda operation focused on disrupting or presidential elections would “go live” 18-ish months before the presidential election?
If your assumption that Hexbear is just bots and propaganda was true, why would it remain isolated for 4 years, with posters talking only to each other? 4 years of training? And, correction on your part, it started federating 10 months ago, not 18.
It makes more sense for these to be people with genuine views and aligned interests.
And are you asking if I have specific evidence that they’re trolls? Or that the governments I’ve listed have troll farms? Or that specifically HB is specifically rife with trolls from this governments’ farms? Because I definitely don’t have specific evidence. Just the historical evidence of (attempted) general interference from those countries in our previous elections.
So you don’t, you’re just accusing people you disagree with of being propaganda agents and bots, despite them existing for 4 years in pure isolation. That’s silly.
Those poor people spending time only on HB for four years, never going anywhere else, never finding 4/8chan, never even finding reddit…
If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
They were banned when reddit cracked down on any leftist thought, not because they were especially bad from what I saw.
They were banned around the same time as The Donald because everyone was tired of the shit both groups were doing.
I do remember that, and I remember them half-assing the Donald by just letting them make a new sub (or overrun conspiracy irrc)
Yeah they immediately took over Conspiracy and consolidated the hold on Conservative. Made me really sad as conspiracy used to have some incredible rabbit hole posts. Then one day it was just TD all over again.
IIRC, the fun conspiracists moved to r/high_strangeness or something like that.
That sub is trash also. I think the whole conspiracy theorist subculture has been taken over by the alt right and is highly politicized at this point.
The days of mild and fun conspiracy theories are over. The entire community has been fully consumed with qanon/maga/antisemitism insanity. Their minds are irrevocably broken.
It’s a shame. I grew up on xfiles and loved all the lore around the culture.
They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.
Sounds pretty cool to me.
While true there was a lot more behind the decision than that final post. They had been fighting with the admins for a long time.
The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical “both sides” bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists
Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.
Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.
edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.
Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin
There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.
It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.
If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he “loves the gays”
Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It’s his implementation of those idealistic principles that’s unethical.
The rest of what you’ve said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they’re all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.
🥱
Literally out here defending Stalin stans
Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn’t fit the shallow narrative you chose.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.
F them and f you for defending them.
This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.
Above screenshot is from said thread.
The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!
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You don’t get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.
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The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It’s not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.
Would you say it’s constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism
Yeah they kept being able to back the most ridiculous claims and then suddenly I was like “oh no they were right all along” and got radicalized 🤷
Coming up with theory in an echo chamber isn’t hard.
and how they kept being able to back it up?
It’s surprisingly easy to backup horrible ideas, but that shouldn’t be your only concern. You also need to think about the morals and what happened last time it was tried.
The ends do not justify the means. The means are the ends.
To be clear, this is coming from you getting banned for being a debate-pervert after you claimed Putin invaded Ukraine to “reinstate the USSR” as a secret Commie and refused to take a pro-Palestinian stance, equating Palestinian resistance with a century of settler-colonial genocide.
I think it’s a bit terminally online to run away to a defederated instance to lick your wounds, rather than reflect on why being a debatebro is unhealthy.
Everyone knows Putin invaded Ukraine because he’s a dumbass dictator who started to believe his own propaganda. It’s the dictator trap. Putin surrounded himself with backstabbing yes men by literally killing anyone who wasn’t.
As to Palestinian resistance. I don’t think Hamas is a good resistance movement. For a whole host of reasons. Which is why the Israeli government has been propping them up since the 80s.
An unsympathetic resistance movement can do more to damage a cause than not having a movement at all.
From now until the ethnic cleansing is complete, Israel will call any resistance movement Hamas, regardless of their actual name or beliefs. I’m not sure how to fight that… I don’t think anyone really knows beyond screaming the truth everywhere we can.
It didn’t work in the 1920s in Europe. But maybe with the Internet… Likely not though.
Everyone knows Putin invaded Ukraine because he’s a dumbass dictator who started to believe his own propaganda. It’s the dictator trap. Putin surrounded himself with backstabbing yes men by literally killing anyone who wasn’t.
Do you have any evidence of this? Could it be that there were economic factors at play, and rational actors, regardless of morality or immorality? This seems utterly vibe-based and lacks a materialist analysis, so I’d love evidence.
From now until the ethnic cleansing is complete, Israel will call any resistance movement Hamas, regardless of their actual name or beliefs. I’m not sure how to fight that… I don’t think anyone really knows beyond screaming the truth everywhere we can.
Hamas isn’t the only resistance group in Palestine, there are others such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The key though is that Israel has been committing settler-colonial genocide for a century, oppressed peoples have a right to use violence against their oppressors, especially when non-violent means have tried and failed, and especially in the face of active genocide.
Equating Hamas to Israel equates resistance to genocide with genocide itself.
what about the 10s of thousands of baltics sent to siberia? wasn’t that a genocide? or all the famine in Ukraine? or the invasion of Hungary and checkoslovaka after they implemented democratic reforms?
The transport of Baltic peoples, Tatars, Japanese, etc were ethnic cleansing, but not genocide because it didn’t seek to destroy those people. I don’t think you’ll find anyone defending those actions.
The famine in Ukraine was part of a wider crop failure of the grain-producing regions of the USSR. The role Soviet policy of distribution grain, reaction to soviet policy in the form of destruction of grain and livestock, and the reaction to that resistance all played is contested, but no serious historian argues that the USSR intended to bring about the destruction of the Ukrainian people.
Life And Terror In Stalin’s Russia, is a great book that is critical of the USSR, but with more nuance than the western narrative. Here’s a free PDF.
The invasion of Hungary
While the initial uprising was sparked by democratic reformers, it was quickly co-opted by fascists, as evidenced by the destruction of communist imagery and murder of Hungarian communists.
i have my own narrative as an estonian. and stop talking about fascists, hungary and spain were never going to be fascist nuclear powers.
There was no economic or rational factors. The only thing that makes a lick of sense is the irrational.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/
Those are a warm-up, but then you have the purges since the invasion began.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-purges-in-putins-shrinking-inner-circle
Putin has sort of been the butt of jokes for years for killing anyone who looks at him funny. He’s a KGB stooge, who made his career out of backstabbing and paranoia. His entire inner circle were afraid to tell him the truth, because he would kill them if they did.
He’s never been “savvy”, he’s just been willing to kill as many people as necessary to secure his own power.
The classic authoritarian dictator who throws people out of windows for saying no. And whose vaulted military had body armor made of cardboard, because the corruption was so ingrained that every single level was accepting bribes and stealing shit.
I’m surprised that they’re still going, but Russia has shown the world that they’re a third rate military, at best.
As to Palestine. It doesn’t matter what the resistance movements call themselves now. Israel will just say they’re Hamas, and no one likes Hamas. There are good reasons not to like Hamas, they’re religious extremists who want to kill all Jews.
And for decades, Israel has funded Hamas behind the scenes, while coming down extra heavy on any other resistance movement. And now it’s all paid off for them because they can just claim that anyone they kill was actually Hamas.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
This tactic of creating the perfectly detestable opposition has been used in quite a few places. For example, Greenpeace gets a lot of money from oil company heirs. Specifically the Rockefeller family.
I doubt anyone from Hamas, or Greenpeace, ever took orders from the people giving them money. They were given the money with no strings attached, because they were already jackasses. The money just extended their reach.
There are absolutely rational reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine.
Looking back to the dissolution and subsequent plundering of the USSR, there became a rising Bourgeoisie within the Russian Federation. Since there wasn’t already Imperialist infrastructure for the Russian Federation to exploit the Third World (large, monopoly and financial Capitalists with international footholds), Putin tried to join NATO and join hands with the rest of the Imperialist western nations, and take “their share” of the super-profits. This was denied, and thus began a long few decades of growing tensions between NATO and the Russian Federation.
Ukraine on the other hand has been increasingly militarized, with anti-Russian sentiments rising. NATO increased expansion against Russian requests, leading to Russia trying to forcibly demilitarize Ukraine.
Regardless of morals, there is a material basis for this conflict.
As for Palestine, again, the oppressed have the rights to use violence to free themselves, especially if non-violence hasn’t worked, and in the face of genocide.
Ukraine has been super militarized with anti-Russian sentiments rising since they illegally stole a part of their country in 2014 and started providing money, arms, vehicles, and soldiers to separatists premised on said separatists murdering their fellow citizens and providing a thin pretext for Russia ultimately taking more of Ukraine.
Given the profoundly destructive nature of any such conflict with Russia and the impossibility of winning or even surviving without a coalition of supporters there is zero chance of Ukraine ever starting a conflict with Russia itself.
Given the risk of nuclear war and the impossibility of pushing Ukraine to start such a conflict there was never any chance of NATO either starting such a conflict OR being able to start one by proxy.
It’s hard to argue that Russia had security concerns when the only person in a position to light this candle is themselves.
NATO was virtually entirely a mutual defense pact vs Russia in their previous incarnation as the USSR. Inducting Russia into NATO would only serve to give them veto power and influence on an org which virtually exists to defend against THEM! It makes no coherent sense nor would it somehow provide the Russians some share of “super profits” it would solely give them an opportunity to undermine NATO which is why Putin wanted it.
The material basis for stealing the Ukrainians country from them and murdering its children is that by doing so they gain access to tax payers, resources, people, strategic resources, land, fossil fuels etc. Based on what we know about their strategic planning we have every reason to believe they thought this would be an inexpensive and quick affair that would be concluded in a matter of days with minimal loss of life.
It is purely a function of avarice, stupidity, and immorality. It is no more complicated than asking why a burglar invaded a home and took the lives of people there when he just ended up leaving bloody himself. They did it because they thought it would profit them and because they thought they could get away with it.
NATO was virtually entirely a mutual defense pact vs Russia in their previous incarnation as the USSR.
This “defense pact” has invaded, bombed and destroyed many countries within only my lifetime, it’s a laughable statement unless your historical horizon is less than a decade.
Living in America it’s incredible to me how people I run into don’t even know the countries that their own government has invaded using its “defense pact”, or pay attention to people whose lives they’ve ruined, and thus can’t even understand why people see them as a threat.
That’s some blatant Russian propaganda there. Blame NATO twice for Russian imperialism.
The “Russia had to invade a sovereign nation because they were talking about joining NATO to prevent Russia from invading them” logic has some holes to it.
The fact that Russia has invaded their neighbors 14 times since the end of the cold war tells you why one of their neighbors would want to join NATO.
Also, remember that time that Russia shot down a commercial airliner? The Ukrainians sure as hell do. That was the true beginning of the invasion, which is why Ukraine was in talks to join NATO.
And yes, people have the right to defend themselves. But the Israeli government has locked down the anti-terror propaganda, because Hamas is pretty vile as far as organizations go. It’s why Israel let Hamas grow and become powerful, and why the Israelis paid to keep Hamas in power for the last decade or so.
As long as Israel can point at Hamas, they have just enough of an excuse to claim their ethnic cleansing is actually just an anti-terror campaign.
Hamas is a full on terrorist organization, not that all terrorist organizations are bad. Or rather, there are some causes where a terrorist organization is the appropriate response. John Brown tried it. So did Nelson Mandela. But Hamas is a religious extremist terrorist organization. One that has distasteful views, and was sort of put in place by Israel for those views.
You see what I’m getting at here? Hamas is fucking evil, and Israel has mostly succeeded in making Hamas the face of Palestinian resistance against Israel.
I doubt many of the original leaders of Hamas are still alive, but that doesn’t matter either when Israel can just lie and say that whoever they kill is Hamas. It’s a bit maddening, and I doubt there’s an answer to it all except for the other Palestinian resistance groups to step up their social media game.
equivilating
I think the word you’re looking for is “equating.”
“Equivilating” is not a word.
“Equivocating” is, but it means to deceive without lying by creatively telling the truth, to seem you’re saying one thing while really saying something else. This is an art form if you play a lawful good face character and your DM says you aren’t allowed to lie.
Just woke up, corrected, haha. Thanks!
This is an art form if you play a lawful good face character and your DM says you aren’t allowed to lie.
This is the real pro tip.
The irony of being banned for being a “debatebro” in fucking hexbear of all places, where “debatebro” is just the zeitgeist.
Call it what it is, he like most others was banned for having differing beliefs than the chosen narrative there.
Please tell me what a debate bro is for the people who don’t know the terminology
Someone who goes fishing for fights online.
Obviously you can’t lump them all into one category, but the majority of them seem to be willing to cause chaos on other instances for a laugh. Doesn’t sit right with me, so i blocked them
cause chaos for a laughspread harmful propaganda from violent dictators for moneyEveryone I disagree with is a paid propagandist
Paid propagandist, true believer, troll. I’m not sure it makes that much difference.
Whether they are paid or not we don’t know, but they are spreading propaganda so they are definitely propagandists.
is everyone
in hexbearinsane?Yes.
Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.
I love that without fail every single person in this thread defending hexbears is from ml with the same pronoun tag format every single hexbear seems to have
Almost like they’re hexbear alts or something
Before I get accused of being a hexbear alt, I only added them after I saw that they were in common use due to hexbear posters showing up in my /all. We did actually start mandating pronoun tags for people participating in /c/transgender -despite the fact that some of the admins are resistant at the instance level- because it seems to work well in the trans spaces on hexbear for fostering a respectful environment.
That’s cool, bud. And I’m doing my best to not criticize the individual person, but there are a few people that make souring the reputation of all on HB
Couldn’t that be said of any and all groups? A few bad posters has soured me on the lemm.ee instance, but would it be logical or fair or me to assume that a few bad experiences reflects an entire group?
Not wrong, but a few bad apples can ruin the whole bunch
I am not from ML nor do I have a Hexbear alt of any sort, but I defend Hexbear’s right to be different. They seem to be a younger group of anti-capitalists so I find their perspectives interesting.
Edit: I am still somewhat new to Lemmy, so maybe there is some history with Hexbear that I am ignorant of, but until I see it for myself, I enjoy their content and will continue to support Hexbear.
I would defend anyone’s right to be different as well. However, that’s not the case here - you said it yourself, you really are missing a huge history between Hexbear.net and… well, everyone else across the Fediverse (and highly ironically, as such they would ruthlessly make fun of you, for speaking without knowing - i.e. you are someone who would defend them, but not vice versa). They poke fun at liberals, conservatives, anyone from the West, etc., and the issue isn’t so much their right to exist or be different, but the need for the rest of the Fediverse to spread their message out in the same manner as all the other messages, which are governed by an entirely different set of policies and code of conduct.
I hope you will agree with me that the rights to do a school shooting, or the right to block someone else’s access to medical care… is really no “right” at all. That is to say that they can be however they like, but the moment that they federate with the rest of the world, it crosses over into our rights, whether we want to receive what they offer or not, and even more so to promote & share it to our own users.
But don’t take my word for it: visit e.g. ChapoTrapHouse or the_dunk_tank and see for yourself. Or here’s an example post, where they took a poll on which other instances to deferate from, then promptly ignored the results that said no and defederated from them anyway:-P lemm.ee for instance had 41 votes to keep it and only 4 for it to go, but despite the additional order of magnitude and some passionate responses defending the former (e.g. “But man we should at least stay federated with lemm.ee, that instance’s admin has been very reasonable and it hasn’t caused much trouble at all; nothing that banning any troublemakers can’t fix.”), they defederated from it anyway. And the reasons stated to keep it are also informative - basically so that they can proselytize to them, though notice the distinct lack of wanting to converse with them as equals. And that is just one instance, among the very few that will even consider federation with hexbear.net to begin with. Also, to balance that out, read lemm.ee’s policy on federation with hexbear.net - notice how 100% polar opposite it is, not just in terms of facts but of behaviors.
There is also programming.dev’s response, tldr version: “Hexbear defederated from us so to prevent one way conversations I have added them to our blocklist as well. If the hexbear admins decide to unblock us I can do the same”… followed in the very next post by “It is very likely we will be federating with Hexbear again…” - which despite the fact that that did not end up happening (as of September 8, 2024 I can see hexbear.net on their instances list, make sure to switch the tab at the top to “Blocked Instances”), I want to point out how extremely friendly other instance admins continue to try to be, towards them, though this behavior seems to have never been rewarded in return. And it’s not just these two instances - there are so very many, here’s another at sh.itjust.works, where they thought long & hard about it (mind you this is an EXTREMELY permissive server, chock-full of reasonable-minded people, which you’ll see as/if you read the other posts in that community), and somewhat shockingly seemed ready to do the defederation, but before they could, once again hexbear.net preemptively did it first, thus making the issue moot.
In short, they know exactly how they are - and many people routinely flee from it to spread elsewhere in an attempt to get away from the extremely heavy-handed authoritarian moderation/admin practices. When you tolerate the intolerant though…
If you enjoy LGBTQIA+ content, it is everywhere, e.g. the variety of blahaj’s that exist - the most popular of which is https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/, with the highest number of users (and to reveal my own bias, I’ve never seen anything written from their admin, Ada, that I have not thoroughly enjoyed reading - if I could follow accounts on the Fediverse, this is one of a mere handful of people across the entire world that I think I would do that for:-). Similarly with “different”/odd content - we love being different here on the Fediverse:-) - and again with left-leaning content (in fact people that are not left-leaning are quite rare).
But I advise to steer well clear of bigots. Except of course to learn about the situation - definitely check it out, and then you’ll know. I know it looks like shit-posting, especially with the rather poor choice of wording in OP’s title, but there truly is an actual history behind all of this. The shit-talking looks casual, but it’s not: hexbear has truly earned most of the ire that is directed its way. And they seem okay with that, some even seem proud of it? :-P
You made a huge wall of text with some claims not borne out by your links, did you even fully read what you were citing or did you skim looking for things to confirm your argument?
From you:
Took a poll on which other instances to deferate from, then promptly ignored the results that said no and defederated from them anyway:-P lemm.ee for instance had 41 votes to keep it and only 4 for it to go, but despite the additional order of magnitude and some passionate responses defending the former (e.g. “But man we should at least stay federated with lemm.ee, that instance’s admin has been very reasonable and it hasn’t caused much trouble at all; nothing that banning any troublemakers can’t fix.”), they defederated from it anyway. An
From the hexbear discussion
However, as expressed by users belonging to marginalized groups, comments from .ee users are often lib-shit and in some cases outright hostile. While many on hexbear love dunking on these lost libs the duty to protect marginalized users is much more importantAgain quoting you:
at sh.itjust.works, where they thought long & hard about it (mind you this is an EXTREMELY permissive server, chock-full of reasonable-minded people,
The hexbear thread expressed the same rationale to block “shits fulla chuds” the fact that you characterize them as reasonable-minded people speaks volumes about you personally.
Just checking in with how someone from a marginalized community felt about this situation: https://hexbear.net/post/497935
Is posting a meme to "own the liberals" worth your comrades getting more trauma from bigots harassing them?No its not.you've had your laugh, but it should endBan them all, SJW, lemm.ee, lemmy, the programmer nazi edglords. Keep Lemmygrad.I was ready to take you seriously but if you’re misrepresenting your very first points that’s a lot harder. You’ve been doing more than that, you’ve been inverting the actual history and in the process ommitted the actual options of marginalized people to suit your narrative.
If you enjoy LGBTQIA+ content, it is everywhere, e.g. the variety of blahaj’s that exist - the most popular of which is https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/, with the highest number of users (and to reveal my own bias, I’ve never seen anything written from their admin, Ada, that I have not thoroughly enjoyed reading
Hexbear is majority non-cis, and its weekly trans megatheads are extremely active. I already looked into this, they have done several polls, and have chatted with a number of them since I started moderating /c/transgender
But I advise to steer well clear of bigots. Except of course to learn about the situation - definitely check it out, and then you’ll know.
Are you trying to imply that they’re bigots now? On what basis? If anything you’ve said enough to make me suspect you more than anyone else.
Edit: like clockwork, I check the mod log and you posted this embarrassing comment 8 months ago and got mocked roundly for it. I can see why you’re still holding a grudge now.
lol:
I am still somewhat new to Lemmy, so maybe there is some history with Hexbear that I am ignorant of
Hexbear is a 4 year old community, it drastically predates the Reddit Exodus, and only started federating with other instances around 10 months ago. Those 3 years of self-sustainability created a unique culture that is at odds with the liberal instances on Lemmy, like Lemmy.world.
In my case my hexbear account is an alt of my lemm.ee account
You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.
Problem is that blocking the instance doesn’t block these clowns’ comments on other instances, you have to do a lot of manual blocking.
It’s not just you
And increasingly lemmy.ml, sadly
They’re getting there, but so far it’s only a few users that I’ve noticed.
One guy seems to be following me around to attempt mockery.
They’re very much getting to “everyone who isn’t farther left than me is a right-wing nazi” mentality.
They aren’t even really left. They are super authoritarian.
I blocked them since they spew Russian and Chinese propaganda points and take revisionist stances on Tianman square and deny the Uyghur Genocide.
One of the mods is an actual Russian troll. [email protected]
Pro-Russian mod who keeps pretending they’re not.
“If those kids could read…” meme would be fitting lol
I mostly agree with you, but that’s the reason why I picked an instance that does not block them: sometimes it is good to see the world from a different point of view. And it’s not like the other Lemmy instances are completely free of propaganda either.
Yeah it is when you’re not affected by them I guess. But their rampant ableism and transphobia would have made me leave lemmy if there wasn’t a way to block.
The term “authoritarian” is so fraught that under these circumstances it might as well just mean “opponent of the United States” or “organized at all”.
The examples you have provided are quite absurd.
Tiananmen Square (which you misspelled) is indeed poorly understood in The West, including the historical conensus that there was no massacre in the square itself. It is, in fact, historical revisionism to suggest otherwise. In addition, Tiananmen Square is just a place, a very popular one to visit that has been the location for all kinda of events. In China, the events are called the June 4 Incident / events. Calling it “Tiananmen Square” is sometimes a sign that a person is not familiar with the history as they are using the common but misleading term that is virtually only used to forward the previously-mentioned historical revisionism to a Western audience that is in no way interested in understanding.
Re: Uyghurs, I would suggest that you read into this much more, as the topic is full of misinformation, think tanks with shady ties, fake universities, charlatans pretending to be experts, literal teenagers treated as satellite photography analysis experts, and really weird NGOs, including pro-Trump ones. One good topic to focus on is calling it a genocide at all and how that came to be the discourse. In particular, what The Newlines Institute is, why they were amplified by the US State Departmwnt, their rationale, and, of course, why none of that is taken seriously outside of a very specific political block. Following their members, funding, etc is actually a pretty interesting rabbit trail to follow. Bird’s eye view, the rhetorical treatment of Uyghurs as the subject of genocide was more or less invented, and this is is why you naturally don’t see math death, destruction, refugees, or forced migrations of the Uyghur population. This does not mean bad things haven’t happened there nor that policies were not hamfisted, but just compare how China treated a series of sectarian knife attacks (education, jobs, vocational training, investment, banning extremist Salafist practices) to how the West treated and treats Muslims (invading and killing millions).
So, anyways, I hope that you can continue your education and engage with these realities in gold faith.
Found one guys!
Tianmen square test: Failed
Uyghur test: Failed
I love this litmus test so much lol.
What did I say that was inaccurate?
Lol your copy pasted “answer” sounded like Donald Trump tried to wriggle out of a tough question.
You showed that you don’t accept the Tianmen square massacre, nor the Uyghur massacre. What’s next, denying the holocaust?
You saw them run over the guy in the square too, didn’t you? Incredible.
Got another one here!
what about märtsiküüditamine? and im not translating for a tankie, kuradi hull!
They didn’t mention it so why would I address it? You don’t seem particularly ready to have a good faith discussion, either.
oh noes the tankie is scwared thwat his narwatiwe of genocide deniwal is being exposed as stupid. now get blocked as i have to gamble gold in roblox flying skibidi toilet tycoon
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors. Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace. The CCP makes people disappear and they offer zero transparency into their judicial process.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning. Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
I can see already how much of a good faith engagement this will be. Would you be surprised if people reacted negatively to your introduction?
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors.
What I was doing was pointing out that the most common understanding is an absurdity and historically revisionist. There is plenty more that could be discussed if one wanted to, but the common understanding is a cartoonish falsehood based on memes and not any actual attempt to read and understand. The way that parent made their reference indicated that they shared this false understanding.
Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
What matters re: the point I made is that there is a conflict with the common mental image and suggests that perhaps a person should recognize when they do not really know something. It might even jostle a person to not reach for the next-worst type of sourcing and instead do a deep-dive that challenges themselves. Wouldn’t want to get caught out like that again, right?
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace.
This is the same illogical structue of the previous response. It sounds like what you would really like to say is that there is something related that you think is important so you would like to skip over what I said. Feel free to make another thread with these other points and I can respond to them there.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning.
Ad I said, the entire narrative shift is based on an absurd propaganda apparatus and not any evidence on the ground. The use of the big G word.
The fact that OP is repeating this again suggests a lack of investigation. And yet they are so dismissive! I would hope that they might become interested in doing some media criticism. Maybe ask a question. Sometimes people do this and only tell you until much later.
Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Now you are just making things up.
All I want to hear from you is an admission that the CCP murdered protestors, and that they jail people without giving families or the international press any contact.
On behalf of my Uyghur friends who haven’t spoken to their parents in years, because they were imprisoned for their children emigrating: fuck you. A really deep, heartfelt fuck you.
Please engage with what I said rather than leveling personal attacks.
Have you ever tried choking to death on a boot?
Please, tell us more about your Uyghur friends and their imprisoned parents.
What’s it like to completely make stuff up and post it online pseudonymously?
I don’t know, you tell me.
I was bullied for off Lemmy.One by the hexbear mods who sent hexbear users my way to harass me…
All for (while I’m still a raging communist) not being a pro authoritarian communist.
That’s kind of just socialism then.
Edit. Misread op comment.
The reason I moved to lemmy.cafe instance is because it’s defederated from those tankie instances. I can’t even see their comments anywhere.
Many of them, yes. They’re among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.
Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.
I have yet to see any reasonableness from hexbear.
Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
They brigade like annoying unwanted fleas that you cannot get rid of.
I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
Definitely a joke, I’m having trouble imagining a person who could believe this in earnest, let alone enough to say it out loud. I’m even having trouble accepting that you can imagine that a person would say this with no sarcasm. No one actually believes that.
edit: just realized that maybe you’re trying to be funny and I’m slow on the uptake
Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
Anytime a person claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link to it, they are lying or misrepresenting what happened literally 100% of the time.
excluding anything tanke related.
Especially anything tankie related.
Y’all will believe literally anything with zero evidence of it means making people you don’t like look bad.
What is a ‘tankie’?
Someone ideologically somewhere between his greatest heroes, Stalin and Mao.
Tankie is such a weird thing to call these communists. They are way way less violent than liberals and conservatives are. They don’t even support any on going genocides like the others do.
The historical through-line is that the term originated from British Communists that supported the USSR putting down the Hungarian Counter-Revolution, which involved tanks and violent fighting.
Nowadays, Tankie is used for everyone left of liberalism that agrees with the Marxist theory of the State, rather than the Anarchist, it’s muddled and has no meaning.
I wouldn’t know I blocked it immediately.
And nothing of value was lost to the HexBear instance.
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Hexbear has been around for 4 years, unfederated. They only started slowly federating around 10 months ago.
At least try to be honest.
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They aren’t mad though, they enjoy the instances they are federated with and are happy they defederated sh.itjust.works and that Lemmy.world “pre-emptively as a last resort” defederated them before even federating.
Having a dedicated Leftist space without constant liberalism is nice.
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My Lemmy.ml account is my older account, I’m defending Hexbear from misinformation right-wingers are spreading.
It isn’t “deplatforming” if Hexbear has always been self-sufficient and started platforming with other instances.
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These pathetic foxes are pissed they’ve been neutralized by defederation.
Hexbear has been around for 4 years, unfederated. It wasn’t until 10 months ago that they started slowly federating. At least try to be honest.
That real lefties, even communists don’t take them seriously.
Who determines what a “real lefty,” or a “real Communist,” if not Communists who regularly read theory, talk about it, and post memes that require understanding theory to even get?
It’s just 4chan cosplaying communism. Truly despicable.
Do you genuinely believe people would put in that much effort to meme amongst themselves something they don’t agree with?
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On what bounds do you say that? If they read Leftist theory, advocate for Leftism, and attack Imperialism and Capitalism, then they are Leftists.
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In what manner does Hexbear advocate for expanding predatory IMF loans to the Global South, and exporting machinery and industrial Capital directly to the source of the Raw Materials so as to over-exploit the Global South by directly owning these sources of production?
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So, nothing, gotcha.
