People make exceptions for things they believe in all the time. Religion is a prime example; show me any established religion, and I’ll show you a few dozen beliefs associated with that religion that 99.9% of worshippers conveniently ignore. That doesn’t mean they don’t believe. That just means they have limits.

He was at a drug-fueled party with wealthy, well-connected people. There would be no reason to believe that a 17 year old girl would have the wealth or connections needed to gain access to that party. Most of the women attending the party were regular attendees. Gaetz had absolutely no reason (that we know of) to believe that the one girl that he randomly hooked up with at this party happened to be a minor that nobody had realized was 17. The report says as much. Now if anyone has any evidence that this specific girl was hired for Gaetz with the knowledge she was 17, then that’s a different story. But given everything we know, there was no reason to believe she was anything other than a consenting adult.

That said, it’s kinda moot anyway. He only has a valid defense for the first time they hooked up. They had apparently met multiple times and while the report gives no indication that he knew of her age for over a month, I don’t think a reasonable person would hook up with someone multiple times and either not say how old she was or never give any indication that something may not be right. Something is going to slip in casual conversation. If they only hooked up the one time, I’d say the case was overblown and actually be on his side. But once he started going back for more, any defense of him not knowing her age becomes less and less believable.

I’m confident. Granted, for some people that red line may require atrocities at or above Hitler levels. It may require atrocities that are comically unrealistic. But it’s there. Put up someone who killed a proverbial busload of school children. If that isn’t enough, two. “Yeah, I killed them all, and I raped them first, and I’ll do the same again if I ever escape.”. Someone’s gonna say “Yeah, OK, stick the needle in his arm”, just because they don’t want to take the .000001% chance that he actually does escape.

An extreme example, yes, but I’m sure you get the idea. Everybody’s got a breaking point.

Read my previous statements.

His subsequent encounters? Yeah, that’s all on him. I’m just saying that in the specific context of their first encounter, he did not intend to have sex with a 17 year old girl, and had no reason to believe the girl was underage given the circumstances.

The fact that he paid for sex is a different circumstance than paying for sex with a minor. They weren’t paying 17 year old girls $400 a whack for sex. They were paying girls $400 a whack for sex, and one of them happened to be 17 years old. I doubt the people who hired these girls were checking IDs or doing background checks. Regarding that first encounter, should Gaetz be held accountable for paying for sex and drugs? Absolutely. But he shouldn’t be getting extra punishment because she was a minor when there is no evidence he was searching for one.

Everything after that is all on him.

All it takes is one chimpanzee to sling their own shit in the general direction of a complex machine and you risk the shit seeping inside and doing permanent damage. The problem is that it’s not just one. Trump has a whole army of chimps with their dicks in one hand and their shit in the other. And all they care about is covering the machine in so much waste that nobody will want to touch it even if it does still appear to work.

My whole family feels the same. There’s a military base about 20 minutes away. We’d probably be dead anyway because of how close we are, but we’re going to drive as close as possible just to make sure.

Right, but again…everybody has that point where they say “…except that case”. You and Biden just disagree on where that line is. Even the Pope is eventually going to look at someone who committed some heinous crimes and say “Dude, even the Bible says that shit ain’t cool…”

I know how strict liability crimes work. I’m saying that the fact that it’s a strict liability crime takes a valid option away from the defendant and is akin to railroading. If you’re at an event available only to wealthy, connected adults and their companions and you happen to get together with one of them, it’s reasonable to assume that the person you’re connecting with is a consenting adult. In fact, barring evidence to the contrary such as something she said, I would actually consider it unreasonable to assume that a 17 year old girl would have access to that party, or the wealth and connections needed to gain access. And I would consider it unreasonable and in fact rude to ask someone to verify their age at that particular type of gathering. With that said, I am well aware that the law doesn’t agree with me. I just think that the law happens to be wrong.

And this is one of the problems with strict-liability crimes like this. Again, say what you will about being at a drug-fueled party in the first place, but Gaetz had every reason to believe he was engaging in consensual (if abhorrent) sexual activity with a willing adult. Everything else he did is 100% on him, but in this specific case, I can’t help but feel that the guy is getting railroaded. Especially since that is by far the most serious charge he is facing.

Even the most die-hard anti-death-penalty believer has their limits. It may take Hitler-level atrocities to get there, or maybe even worse. But everyone has their own line in the sand where even they will say “If there was ever a case in favor of the death penalty, this is that case.” That line is in a completely different place for everybody.

It also makes it seem like he believes it’s his decision to decide who gets to live and that rubs me the wrong way.

Since the President has final pardon power, he actually does get to decide who gets to live. It’s a power granted to him by the Constitution.

But I believe (correct me if I’m wrong, please) that it was also not meant to have a civilian population at all, and only be home to businesses, government offices, and those who were in elected office until they left and returned home. The absence of a civilian population would render the fact that DC has no representation in congress moot. But people started living there, causing the problem of having no representation in Congress.

guam and american samoa im not really sure whats going on.

Population issues. An admittedly quick Google search (so take it for what it’s worth) says that the minimum population is 60,000 adult males. Guam has a population of 172k, so there are either not enough adult males among the 172k (which is unlikely but possible once you factor out women and children under 18), or there are other issues I’m unaware of (including maybe simply not wanting to become a state).

The other US territories outside of Puerto Rico and Guam typically have populations of less than 50k in total per territory, which would make them way, way too small to be considered for statehood. Admitting them as states would also give them outsized voting power when compared to population size, particularly in the US Senate. But even in the HOR, you’d have one representative from each territory representing roughly the population of a small US city who’s vote would carry weight equal to others that are representing half a million to a million or more each.

Altermante headline, as found on CNN’s home page: Trump considers US expansion.

The contents of the article are nothing new. I’m posting this to show a prime example of two things: The mainstream media’s painting of coverage favorable to Trump in order to avoid his wrath and the political and legal retribution that comes with it, and the media’s sanewashing and normalizing of Trump’s ramblings.

Wanting to take Panama by force, trade Puerto Rico for Greenland in order to get rid of the brown people, and threatening to annex Canada in order to piss off Trudeau isn’t “teasing” or “considering US expansion”. It’s the inane ramblings of a dementia patient off their meds, and should be being treated by the media about as seriously as saying he’s going to use Space Force to take Jupiter back from King George Jetson. The only proper response to this should be to pat him on the head and tell him it’s OK as they quietly escort him back to his room.

i think the person you’re replying to is making a normative claim.

That much I agree with. There’s little to no practical difference. And in his defense, if anyone has been to a drug-fueled party, they can tell you how common anonymous (and sometimes public) sex happens. Say what you will about him being at a drug-fueled sex party in the first place, but if you’re at a drug-fueled party with a whole bunch of wealthy and well connected adults and engage in sexual activity, it’s not unreasonable to assume that the person you’re screwing is an adult.

The difference between 17 and 18 can’t be brushed off, though, when that difference almost singlehandedly makes the difference between you getting the side-eye and getting a prison sentence.

Hot take: the difference between 17 and 18 doesn’t actually matter

Oh it absolutely matters in 12 states in this country, including Florida.

You know, I’m willing to believe that Gaetz genuinely didn’t know the girl’s age the first time they had sex. The report acknowledges as much. And I’m unwilling to accuse anybody, even someone as detestable as Gaetz, of something that they didn’t do especially when there’s evidence supporting their claim. And right now, there is plenty of evidence that he did not know she was underage when they had sex.

The first time.

Then he went back for seconds. Anyone who has ever been in an FWB relationship knows how it works. You don’t just sit there and make an appointment for every Tuesday afternoon to just get together and quietly fuck like you’re in a clinical trial or something. You don’t get into an FWB relationship without getting to know someone. There’s going to be small talk involved. Playful banter. Genuine conversation. And at some point in that conversation, age is going to come into play. Even if she doesn’t directly say “I’m 17!!!”, she’s going to mention how much she hates the classes she’s taking. Or her plans after she graduates. Or what she plans on being when she grows up. Or the fact she still lives at home. Something. Something is going to give away her age, or at the very least cause a reasonable person to at least start asking questions like “So what college do you go to?” to attempt to figure out how old she is.

And even if she’s just being paid by an intermediary or something, small talk is still going to be involved. Even the most highly paid prostitute is going to engage in casual conversation to break the ice.

However it ended up, if it just happened once, I’d be willing to bet he genuinely didn’t know her age. Then he went back for seconds. At that point, any reasonable person is going to believe he knew, and just didn’t care.

I think you misunderstand what I am referring to. I am referring to the second Johnson speaker vote which was in March and filed by MTG. They didn’t know the results of the election nor did they want to get unfairly blamed for republican dysfunction in said election as often happens

Fair enough. I had assumed they were willing to help him now, which would be a whole new level of stupid.

In what world would you even trust Johnson to keep his word

The rules that republicans agreed on let all house members, including dems, call for a motion to vacate the speaker. Only needed a singular representative to do so and given that there were plenty of republicans willing to get rid of him, so they had some leverage over him

I could be wrong and admittedly am too lazy to look it up, but I believe that it had to be a single Republican member. Allowing a single Democrat to make the motion to vacate the chair would just be introducing all sorts of chaos. And if they were allowed to do this and weren’t taking advantage of it on the daily, then that’s a massive fail on their part. With all of the infighting in the GOP, I’d be making the motion to vacate daily even if only for my own entertainment, because the deathmatch that would happen every time there’s a vote for a new speaker would be better than anything WWE could put on.

And to clarify the House Dems in the original article are talking about his next speaker vote come the start of next year

I should hope so. There shouldn’t be a single Democrat being willing to vote for anyone but Jeffries for any reason.

I believe I read somewhere that they got some political concessions out of it and also wanted to actually get stuff done while a dem was the president.

If this is what they got, then Democrats are even dumber than I thought. In what world would you even trust Johnson to keep his word? What do they expect to accomplish over the next 30 days that actually matters that’s worth saving this clown? What kind of political concessions were they going to be able to get that they thought the incoming MAGA administration would even honor?

Unless they somehow expect to be able to get something that is going to be of significant and immediate benefit to the people, the only thing the Dems should be doing right now is sitting back and watching the GOP getting ready to burn the place down. If Johnson finds his own feet getting a little to close to the fire, then let his own party rescue him. They have the majority. Let him fall on his face so we can see another 3 week circus as they try to figure out which clown is in charge of handing out the red noses. That’s at least 3 weeks where they’re at least not taking a steaming shit all over American society for funzies. Hell, if we can get them to trip all over themselves trying to elect a speaker (after figuring out what the word “elect” means. Two syllables, you know.) for the next couple of years, that’s probably the best possible outcome for this country. I’d rather them do that than try to enact Project 2025.

Wait until he takes office. One of his cabinet picks isn’t going to make it, and he’ll threaten to nuke the Bahamas in retaliation because they’re surrounded by too much water and that’s not fair to the US. He demands that that water be returned to the Great Salt Lake where it belongs so it can be used to solve all of the water crisis in the country and Make America Wet again.

Then Stormy daniels will chime in and remind us that Trump is incapable of getting anyone wet.

You could offer me a loaf of stale bread for Musk and I’d still come out ahead in the deal.