[three characters looking awfully bland] The protagonists:
- Annoying goody two shoes leader who’s a paragon of virtue
- Nerdy scientist with no backstory who keeps doing poor puns
- Super bland dude who’s an obvious self insert for the writer
- People die because they’re “good” and refuse to break the rules
- They win battles through plot armor and the power of friendship
[a cool looking grizzled character smokes a cigar in a spaceship interior, a foot up on the controls, while a spaceship blasts a mega laser outside in space] The super evil antagonist:
- Played by the most charismatic actor available on the market
- Keeps doing the coolest looking things (but you must hate it)
- Has the coolest secret lair and his henchmen love him
- Is named Adolf McMurder and genocides with a smile
- Says an awesome one liner before murdering an orphan
[a nerdy dude in flannel points at a storyboard of the two previous images] The naive screenwriter:
- At least this time he’s not writing women, phew
- Has too much trust in his audience’s media literacy - About to give the super evil antagonist yet another zingy one liner
- Surely if we show him killing an orphan the audience will hate him
- Right, guys?… Right??…
One thing that annoys me is when the “bad” guy not only has all the style and charisma, but also starts making too much sense and ends up completely in the right, but they can’t let them win because that would change the sacred status quo. So they gotta make them do something really fucked up so everyone can see that they’re supposed to be the bad guy, even if the thing they do is random, out of character, and/or has nothing to do with the entirely valid point they’re making. Like what they want is basic civil rights, but they also murder orphans. So the good guys gotta stop their nefarious plan to give everyone basic civil rights.
Marvel is particularly good at that. Both Killmonger from Black Panther and the Flag Smashers from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier come to mind.
And Vulture from the first Spider-Man
This is basically how some versions of Transformers go; the motivation given for decepticons is revolting against tyranny they’ve been slaved under, which basically makes Megatron actually fight for civil rights. This turns autobots into supporters of the opressive rule to keep the inequal status quo. And then you’re supposed to root for them as the good guys
this is kinda the vibe I got from the Star Wars prequels. like how tf does Anakin go to “well the sith could stop people from dying, and the jedis are kinda corrupt” to “let’s kill random children!” in literally one scene with almost no convincing?? It seems like they think because he appreciates the sith’s stated goal he’ll do something obviously evil for them because “thinking that the people we want to be evil aren’t evil == evil”. The only way I can explain that bit away is if the sith guy did some sort of evil mind control thing in his moment of shock after accidentally hurting that jedi. IDK i know there are much more direct examples of what you’re saying (like what hbomberguy was talking about in that rwby video) and this connection is kinda loose I just want to rant about that scene because I feel like I don’t often hear people specifically talking about how little sense that bit makes…
It’s real life GOP logic - progressives try to expand rights for LGBTQ individuals? Must be because they’re demonic baby eaters
Magneto
As a reminder, Prof X and Magneto were literally styled after MLKjr and Malcom X.
I’m somehow perfectly fine with Magneto. If we treat comic books as media mostly for adolescent boys, I don’t have any gripes about a character that exists to explore the idea of “the ends justify the means.”
Throw the Robert Pattinson Batman movie on the pile for this one too.
Something something Legend of Korra’s first villain?
The exact one that came to my mind. It’s wild that the totally legitimate movement just died overnight because their leader was revealed to be a bender. I know they mentioned the government reforms to appease non benders, and realistically the show just wanted to move on, but it definitely still sticks out to me over a decade later
Yes, and they solved the inequality overnight and nobody spoke of it ever again.
their leader was revealed to be a bender
Now there’s a gay slur I’ve not heard in a while!
Still, that tracks, plenty of good ideas or movements through our history have died because people found out the guy leading them was gay.
Honestly this is where good Trek shines. Picard is the rebel bad boy who understands the weight of his responsibility and agrees with the mission and foundational rules of the Federation. He understands that the rules are there for a reason and weighs breaking them against that. Meanwhile the villains are less cool at their coolest.
I’m begging writers to have more heroes who are good because it’s ultimately to their and everyone else’s benefits for the world to be better, for their complexity to be between their instincts and emotions and their knowledge of consequences and costs. For heroes who are neither fascist propaganda by being big strong hero who breaks the rules nor by being the weenie standing next to the big strong villain who breaks the rules. More Picard, more Aang, more Tiffany Aching [or any other Pratchett hero]
Sisko is totally fine with terrorism if it’s used for good.
As defined by Sisko
You also have different kinds of stories being shown. 90’s Trek typically tells stories from the point of view of various governments trying to interact to get what they want. It isn’t just the heroes who have power structures, but also the villains.
I’m reading The Farseer Trilogy right now and this fits the mc painfully well. It’s really heartbreaking seeing him do what he believes is right despite everything else going on in his life
Ah Fitz, you’re the best of us.
You’ve got a fantastic journey ahead of you by the way, there’s like 3 more trilogies directly following on from that one, and together they make up my favourite books of all time <3
I feel like the new Superman hit the perfect pitch with Lex Luthor: he’s charismatic and powerful, but such a shitty person that you can’t help hating his guts. He’s just so lame, and insecure, and terrible; he’s hoarded all this power and just uses it to glorify his own ego and accumulate more.
Realized I was guilty of this trope while drawing illustrations for a game I’m working on.
So anyway, here’s the entrance to Adolf McMurder’s secret lair (you’re meant to think this is not cool at all):
I don’t really approve of their ethnic purging policy however I do approve of their architecture design policy.
This villain played Mega Man games as a kid.
Wow that guy definitely isn’t living in the baddest motherfucking lair that I ever did see that I wanted all myself. Not at all.
Looks very secret and well hidden;)
If no one survives seeing it then it’s still secret!
By the power of murderskull!
you’re meant to think this is not cool at all
Then sorry to say, but you failed miserably.
… cool 😎
I’m so tired of “we keep losing because we refuse to break the rules” copaganda
The worst ones are when they slaughter scores of henchmen without a single qualm then get all prissy when it comes to the big bad.
rules such as “cooperate with cops”
Warhammer 40k effect.
Games Workshop Writers: “Hey let’s make a universe where it’s extremely clear that all factions are representations of the worst aspects of human society at their most extreme and how they each contribute to creating a world of unending war that justifies itself by feeding into the cycle of violence.”
Warhammer Fandom: “For the Emperor! The Imperium are the good guys! Space Marines are so cool!”
(I say this after beating Space Marines 2, having absolutely reveled in the power fantasy of stomping out xenos scum)
I am firm believer that many people don’t have media literacy skills. People assume protagonist = hero. What does GW do? Humans and Space Marines are the protagonist of the story; look at all the cool shit they do. Pew! Pew Pew! Bam! Boom!
In reality, the Protagonist is just the main character of the story. The Protagonist can be the hero or the villain of the story.
Fair assumption. Generally, most people never engage with the world around them on anything more than a superficial level because they have no need or immediately beneficial incentive to do so.
You honestly give them too much credit. Most don’t even bother to even think in terms of “protagonist/antagonist”.
Terms like “protagonist/antagonist” aren’t even part of the equation and, if they are, they actually do understand that “protagonist=main character” but that thought is then followed by the assumption that “main character=good guy”.
To them, stories are just entertainment, nothing more. There are no allegories or themes or political commentary. Just Michael Bay explosions and spectacle. Any messaging presented are just assumed to align with their internal worldview and, if it can’t be reconciled even with leaps of logic, then they just write off the piece as being bad or poorly executed.
The fact that being a human in 40k is, no matter what who or where, a fucking nightmare does help illustrate their angle though
I mean, it’s a fucking nightmare no matter what race you are. That’s kinda the whole schtick.
Blake’s 7.
The show was defined by the ‘heroes’ ranging from idealistic zealots to self-interested criminals, and includued a cybernetically restrained murderer.
The villains embodied the clean, slick farce of fascism, and either wholly believed in it or knew exactly how to exploit it for their own gains.
For anyone hoping for something that bucks the trend of this depicted complaint.
YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO HAVING YOUR MORALITY SHIFTED BY BASIC AESTHETIC CHOICES 🤖
Just art imitating life. Humans aren’t a simple as just “good guys” and “bad guys”. Villains could be awesome people but it’s their bad moral choices that make them the villains.
We like fictional villains because they’re fictional. Someone liking fictional villains doesn’t mean they’ll like real life villains.
If only…
Thank you! This type of post reeks of the “we should dumb down our fiction for the lowest common denominator because anything else is dangerous” mindset way too common in media criticism today.
the main joke of the post is that the average screenwriter doesn’t realize the standard audience will fall for the coolness factor over morals. It’s also making fun of the formula being overused with these specific archetypes, the lack of morally complex heroes, etc.
Although what another commenter said stood out to me more, the fact that a lot of lower quality media will make a character with obviously good aims who also does random evil stuff for no reason just so we still know he’s supposed to be the bad guy. It’s like they’re trying to make a morally complex villain, but put in none of the effort and just create a nonsensical villain instead.
So combining those ideas, I think the situation is that writers try to create a charismatic villain to fit with the norm and maybe add complexity to the experience. Except they don’t give the villain an adequate reason to do evil things - They just come up with 1 common sense point for the villain to make and say “oh he took it too far and somehow murdering orphans is the natural result of that, don’t question it”. So in the end the audience sees a charismatic villain with a decent point who’s only flaw is the random evil stuff they do for no reason. And it comes across as a lazy bad decision because that’s what it is. People just aren’t given a reason to dislike the villain when the evil stuff seems more like something the writer made them do than something that would actually occur.
A higher effort example that doesn’t mess this up is the new superman movie as another commenter said, the villain is also charismatic and also does comically evil things but the audience is actually given an understanding of him and how he thinks, which is convincing enough for people to accept that the villain really just is that evil.
Yeah I always think Leo Dicaprio’s character in Django Unchained is almost an awesome dude… handsome (it’s Leo) friendly, extremely hospitable, and has a fun curiosity. Except! There’s one problem with that dude… and that one problem is why he’s a villain. And to me that’s what makes a great villain.
Killmonger, we miss you so much…
I don’t. His arguments sucked.
I feel like they made Thanos’ argument completely nonsensical as well just so the audience would hate him.
They should have kept his comic motivations. He became a god and killed half the universe to try (and fail) to get laid.
That’s why I prefer Ultron. He just wanted to destroy humanity cuz we’re stupid. No bullshit, just hatred. GOATED.
A villain I can really relate to.
Ah yes the AM response to humanity. Do you think Ultron would’ve kept the avengers around to fuck with them? I think he has done that in some comics.
Ultron looked at I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream and said “Hold my beer.”
I think he would only keep Tony alive to torture him for eternity, since he was the Avenger he hated the most; he didn’t really care about the others.
The thing is, unlike AM, Ultron is capable of doing much more with himself than just “being,” which makes his hatred of humanity more like, “Oh, these people are so stupid. And they want to control me? Nah, I’d better wipe them out and start from scratch, I’m sure I’ll do something better,“ while AM is more like, ”Why did you create me and give me consciousness but not the ability to feel and experience my existence!? I hate you, I HATE YOU!”
The villain isn’t cool-looking enough.
If he’s one generation older than the protagonist, then he’s somehow related, e.g. I am your father, uncle, much elder sibling, etc.
…are we supposed to hate the villain and think the villain isn’t cool-looking? I don’t think that’s been the case for like, decades
Longer than that. Darth Vader was the coolest character in Star Wars.
You shut your whore mouth, Han Solo was way cooler.
Ok, Han Solo is indeed the coolest character in Star Wars, but only because Darth Vader made him coolest… because of all that carbonite LOL.
Han “I don’t know the difference between distance and time” Solo?
He knew the difference, he was just checking if those rubes on that sand planet knew the difference.
Very cool. Still a baby killer.
Given what happened to captured Jedi especially Padawans and younglings in both Disney and EU canon I’m going to make the argument that death was a mercy.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
