BlueMAGA

  • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    This thread is being targeted by a lot of no-content “correct the record” fediverse accounts, upvoting pro-genocide US democratic party and Israeli talking points. Please report them so we can ban them ASAP.

    Thank you to all the posters below doing great work debunking them.

      • Dialectical Idealist@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        Make no mistake, Barack Obama is a war criminal.

        During his presidency, Obama approved the use of 563 drone strikes that killed approximately 3,797 people. In fact, Obama authorized 54 drone strikes alone in Pakistan during his first year in office. One of the first CIA drone strikes under President Obama was at a funeral, murdering as many as 41 Pakistani civilians. The following year, Obama led 128 CIA drone strikes in Pakistan that killed at least 89 civilians. Just two years into his presidency, it was clear that the “hope” that President Obama offered during his 2008 campaign could not escape U.S. imperialism.

        The drone operations extended to Somalia and Yemen in 2010 and 2011, resulting in more destructive results. Under the belief they were targeting al-Qaida, President Obama’s first strike on Yemen killed 55 people including 21 children, 10 of which were under the age of five. Additionally, 12 women, five of them pregnant, were also among those who were murdered in this strike. These blundered acts of murder by not only President Obama, but the U.S. government, are morally reprehensible.

        Even more civilian casualties came out of Afghanistan throughout Barack Obama’s time in office. In 2014, Obama began removing troops currently deployed in the country. However, instead of this action by the president being one in a pursuit of peace and stability in the region, it only acted as an opportunity to drastically increase air warfare. Afghanistan had war rained upon them by U.S. bombardment, with the administration viciously dropping 1,337 weapons on Afghanistan in 2016. In total that year, the Obama administration dropped 26,171 bombs (drone or otherwise) across seven countries: Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. The U.S., in cooperation with its allies including the Afghan government, killed 582 civilians on average annually from 2007 to 2016.

        See “https://archive.ph/wK992#selection-1737.240-1761.53” for the full article.

        Americans are propagandized to ignore U.S. imperialism; we assert ourselves as the world’s policeman. Ask yourself: Why can the U.S. murder in the Middle East or sink civilian ships from Venezuela with impunity? The murder of U.S. civilians is unacceptable but when we do the killing it’s always a “necessary evil”.

  • Pirate2377@lemmy.zip
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    3 months ago

    If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.

    Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.

  • Best_Jeanist@discuss.online
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    3 months ago

    Karl Marx said:

    The relationship of the revolutionary workers’ party to the petty-bourgeois democrats is this: it cooperates with them against the party which they aim to overthrow; it opposes them wherever they wish to secure their own position.

    What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists. America doesn’t have ranked choice voting, but voting socialist in the primaries and left (out of the two candidates presented) in the generals is the closest approximation. This is the Karl Marx approved strategy, as you can see from his speech to the Communist League.

    Now let’s talk about this meme. It’s fake news. There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats. Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats. I submit that the Democrats are at least 1% better than the Republicans, and that this proves the meme is fake news. And if anyone replies to this comment and says well 1% isn’t good enough, I’m going to accuse you of moving the goalposts, because this meme says colour is the only difference. The meme doesn’t say 1% less people get run over by the trolley, and I think there are at least 1% fewer state caused deaths under the Democrats.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists.

      The democrats are also funding this genocide:

      There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats.

      The democrats expanded these immigrant prison camps. Some stats from the Obama era:

      Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats.

      The democrats didn’t close their torture camp in Cuba either.

      • Best_Jeanist@discuss.online
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        3 months ago

        If you go to university and do any kind of field that involves essay writing, you’ll learn to use a thesis statement to summarise your argument so people know what you’re arguing for. You’ve provided some evidence, but it’s entirely unclear what your position is in this conversation other than “the democrats do bad things sometimes”. If your entire position is “the democrats do bad things sometimes”, then great job! We’re all very proud of you for proving the democrats do bad things sometimes. Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.

          Leaving this comment up to show the titanic levels of entitlement and arrogance from the anti-communist crowd.

          Even open source devs only exist to do free labor for them, we’re not people to them.

    • SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I submit that the Democrats are at least 1% better than the Republicans, and that this proves the meme is fake news.

      You can’t just state something as fact and not show your work. You are making a claim it’s up to you to support it. You can’t just go around saying “I’m right unless you prove the negative”.

      You have not placed any goalposts to begin with, what is your definition of “better”? By what metric are you using? What do you mean by “under the Democrats”?

      How about we define “better” as “death rate per capita within immigration detention centers”? And “under the Democrats/Republicans” as “who holds the executive branch”? We should see an increase during the Bush years, when ICE was first created, a decrease during the Obama years, followed by an increase during Trump’s first term, decrease during Biden, and increase under Trump’s second term right?

      Is that what happened?

      If you don’t like my attempt at making your claim falsifiable, which I suspect you won’t; especially when you see the results, feel free to redefine your lose language into something else rigid and falsifiable. Set those goalposts.

  • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    More like…

    The lever can reduce the speed of the trolley depending on which way you turn it, but regardless the trolley will gradually accelerate either way.

  • rafoix@lemmy.zip
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    3 months ago

    “Both sides” idiocy.

    The GOP is full of fascists, KKK, white supremacists, religious fundamentalists and anti-science pieces of shit. There is no way to redeem them.

    The Democrats are a mixture of economic conservative socialists liberals, and socialists. There is a chance to fix it.

    The socialists are the minority because the economic conservatives are corrupt and very well funded by billionaire Democrats and Republicans making them an effective controlled opposition.

    • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      There are no socialists in any position of power in the democratic party, you are delusional

      • rafoix@lemmy.zip
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        3 months ago

        People that believe in socialism are socialists. They don’t have to label themselves that way.

        Americans are so brainwashed to be afraid of certain labels that they will do everything that the label is but will still claim that the label is bad.

        • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          People that believe in socialism are not given positions of power by the democratic party

          • rafoix@lemmy.zip
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            3 months ago

            I agree.

            They have to win elections and they have to fight from within. AOC and the squad have been dealing with that since day one.

            That’s my point. People that actually believe in fighting corruption can win elections in the Democratic Party. We need more people around the country to primary the centrists everywhere and work hard for the people.

            • limer@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              I think It is hard for elections to push any reform. And that is for countries with actual democracy.

              Socialism can only be achieved by non democratic methods

              • rafoix@lemmy.zip
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                3 months ago

                We already have socialism in the US. We have a mixed system. The issue is how mixed we want it to be and what specific policies would be the most effective at improving the lives of Americans.

                Examples- Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure, Fire protection, Police, national parks

            • An Original Thought@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              They have to win elections and they have to fight from within.

              Wait everyone! Don’t you see? If we join the Nazis we can change them from within!

        • NewDark [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          They both serve capital at the expense of the working class. They arent the same exactly but they’re on the same side.

          • rafoix@lemmy.zip
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            3 months ago

            They both serve capital but one is fully captured while the other is fighting back but it is still well below the 50% needed to be able to redirect the party back to FDR ideals just without the 1940s racism.

            • Atlas@lemmygrad.ml
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              3 months ago

              Do you really think that the intersection of 40s racism and FDR ideals (for white people) is a complete coincidence? That there was absolutely nothing else happening at that time related to the US being able to sustain higher living standards for the working class?

              You clearly are not educated enough on this topic to have an in-depth conversation. That’s not an attack on your character, but you really should consider learning more.

              And before you say I haven’t provided solutions, real solutions & real change require theory and practice. It’s not easy and you will have a gut reaction to reject it because you are kept comfortable by the spoils of imperialism. This is why most people choose to not waste their time engaging with you and instead post memes. I have spent 30 minutes of my real life typing out a message that will likely not convince you of anything given what I’ve seen of your other responses.

              If you actually want to fight for a better future then I’d be happy to provide you resources to learn more.

  • zbyte64@awful.systems
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    3 months ago

    I’ll just tell that to my brother in law who just got released from ICE custody. Like I know this picture is probably true for Gaza, but it isn’t for many of my neighbors and family.

    • DaMummy@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Wait until you find out Obama deported twice as many immigrants(could be just Mexicans, I can’t remember) as Trump did. Or when you find out Obama dropped more bombs on Muslim countries than Trump. Or that Hillary raised twice as much money from corporations in ‘16 than Trump (same with Harris in’ 24)

  • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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    3 months ago

    Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?

    Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.

    While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.

    I’m sure it’ll resonate with all of them /s

    • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Hey hypocrite.
      Want to tell all the deported and kids in cages under Genocide Joe how that was much better?
      Or that bombing brown people everywhere in the world, droning weddings or aiding genocide of Palestinians is better bcs it’s under those Dems who have those famous ‘democratic values’ they’re always crying about?
      Just say it like it is, libs only care about themselves.
      You all didn’t give a fuck about what you did to the world since forever.
      And you probably also don’t give a fuck about trans people either.
      The problem is now the fascism you supported has come home, and the libs don’t like the taste of their own medicine.
      That’s ALL that bothering you.

      Enjoy your karma, hope you get a lot of it.

    • SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?

      Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.

      So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.

      go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.

      Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.

      go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.

      Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.

      • Phantom@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        It’s relieving to see common sense on the internet, have upvote. It’s very interesting how the uniparty seems to get majority vote every single election.

      • HazardousBanjo@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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        3 months ago

        Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.

        So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.

        You are fucking delusional to the extreme.

        While ICE has been attacking immigrants for decades, you got to be a god damn idiot to equate ICE operating under Dems compared to Trump where ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.

        All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.

        It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.

        Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.

        Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.

        I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.

        Call me crazy, but one seems a bit better than the other.

        Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.

        Completely avoiding the point. Are you playing stupid or is this just how you are?

        REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION

        REPUBLICANS WANT TO BAN CONTRACEPTIVES

        Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.

        The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists. Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.

        • SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.

          The same can be said between Trump’s first term and Biden’ presidency. The level of funding and militancy isn’t a function of R vs D, but a function of time as they because increasingly less cost effective and require increasing force to attempt to maintain/increase the level of eliminations.

          All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.

          You’re delusional if you believe in the “rule of law”, that’s never been how the justice system has worked in the US.

          It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.

          Sorry you can no longer sleep through brunch and now have to face the realities that immigrants and others have been facing for decades.

          Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.

          … What? Can you clarify what you mean by this and what data? This feels like Facebook level finger pointing and not based on any actual data or proper analysis, but I’m happy to be proven wrong there.

          I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.

          Your “group” being spared genocide as a tool to influct genocide on others is not the “easy moral dilemma” you make it out to be.

          REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION

          The bipartisan nominated supreme court banned abortion during a democratic party trifecta.

          Blaming the Republicans primarily for that is as asinine as blaming the Democrats primarily for the current government shutdown.

          Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.

          No? So they’re just completely powerless and their votes were forced even though they really, really didn’t want to?

          The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists.

          The difference is who we say are fascists. Yes, the Republicans are fascist, but so are the Democrats.

          Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.

          If there’s one thing we can agree on it’s that the elephant in the room is absolutely covered in shit. However, I’m busy trying to take the fucking animals outside and am currently begging for you to please, please stop sucking donkey cock, realize the problems, and help.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.

      Sure, which victim of Clinton’s should we start with?

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?

      I’ll tell you.

      This shit was already happening. Yes, it’s taken another step under Trump, but the incrementalism occurred with Democratic fascists as well. What Trump is able to do now would be impossible if Democrats hadn’t seized on the illegal powers dreamed up by Clinton and Dubya and ran with them.

      Clinton, while fucking his interns, invented ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ and did nothing about persecution of gay people, and in fact, he was the one who signed DOMA. He invented “peacekeeping actions” so he could make war without calling it that, and he did just that. He cut the social safety net wholesale, making Americans poorer, and doubled down on poverty with his ‘free trade’ policies that helped usher in the era of companies moving offshore and killing US jobs. Oh, and he was a regular on Epstein’s island and the Lolita Express.

      Obama let police run roughshod in Ferguson and New York City, brutalizing victims of police violence and people who lost their homes and decided to participate in Occupy. He appointed Tom Homan and put kids in cages. He made torture explicitly extra-legal. He walked into Flint and performatively drank a glass of water. He dropped 26,000 bombs in the last year of his presidency and left office with American wars brewing in seven countries. We also learned under Obama that police departments in the US have black sites and his presidency was kidnapping renditioning people to black sites in foreign countries. He also ordered drone bombings that killed American citizens.

      We knew Biden was going to be shit when, in a time people wanted federal police reform, he mocked the change people wanted in his State of the Union address by calling for greater police militarization, and his presidency gave rise to ‘cop cities’. Even worse, it’s now possible for cops to hang out in a school that’s getting shot up, on camera, with zero consequences. After January 6 he did nothing meaningful to slow the evident rise of domestic fascism, showing a greater interest in keeping his scumbag son out of prison. He deported undocumented immigrants by the millions and continued the policy of caging kids. Biden earned the moniker ‘Genocide Joe’ for aiding and abetting the genocide in Israel, even when Israel escalated it into a manufactured famine, which is a war crime. Then he ran for president knowing he had dementia, paving the way for Trump’s second term, prioritizing his own ego over the country’s well-being.

      This isn’t a ‘Democrats are better’ scenario. Most people just haven’t really paid attention to what Democrats do or have the short-term memory of a goldfish.

      And before you try to argue they were powerless, consider that all three of these men had the presidency and control of Congress, just like Trump. They had all the power they needed to make real change. They just didn’t care.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?

      Obama Leaves Office As ‘Deporter-In-Chief’

      Democrats tried so fucking hard to outflank the Republicans from the Right for eight long years. But as soon as they lost, its those damned leftists at fault for not voting harder.

      Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.

      I’ve got a trans friend who has more rotten things to say about Joe Biden than your eardrums can handle.

    • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 months ago

      Are you one of those? Or do you just talk over them, depriving them of their voice?

    • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      “This is the problem with you Amerikkkan imperialists, you only care about your own people and don’t give a shit about anyone outside your country”

      ~(a paraphrase of) an actual reply I got one time when I shared this sentiment